The Definitive Guide To Dating Statistics: What To Expect From The Game
When it comes to dating, just like anything else in life, what gets measured gets managed. Whether you want a girlfriend or a fuckbuddy or multiple relationships, it’s important to know what to expect and how much work you need to put in to get what you want.
If you’re like most guys you want to have happy, healthy relationships with women but maybe you don’t know how much work you need to put in. Or maybe you’re putting in the work but the results aren’t coming. Or maybe you’re doing well with women but you read about other guys and want to get the results that they have. Wherever you are, I think it’s important to know what kind of numbers are realistic so that you can manage your expectations accordingly.
When I first started getting serious about my dating in my early 20’s I had no idea what kind of results to expect. I knew most players in real life weren’t honest about their stats and neither were the guys I was reading online. At that point in time guys like Mystery were talking about going 10 for 10. Needless to say that wasn’t how it was playing out for me in real life, especially in online game.
Because I wasn’t getting the results I thought other guys were getting, I started believing that maybe I wasn’t as handsome as I’d always thought or maybe my game was whack and I should try memorizing routines like the PUA guys. I started to think that maybe my previous success with women only came from my social status in high school.
It wasn’t until I found legit guys like Blackdragon for online game, and Paul Janka for day game, that I started to see what real world metrics looked like. Until then it was “PUAs” claiming a 100% success rate and being able to seduce any girl with the right game.
What I want to do in this article is to give you the realistic metrics that I wish I had when I was first getting serious about dating. This is going to save you a lot of anguish and questioning yourself once you realize what’s actually possible as opposed to what’s being sold to you by for-profit businesses. It’s also going to give you an idea of what kind of sex life is available to you in the real world.
Most importantly I wanted to give you my conclusions based on real world data analysis. This will hopefully destroy some myths for you and ideally take some years off your learning curve.
Here’s the breakdown of my stats followed by what you can takeaway plus a bullet point recap to wrap things up:
Total Lay Count: 140
Quality of Women: 5/10 – 9/10 (the bulk between 7/10 – 8.5/10)
South American: 3%
Middle Eastern: 2%
1st Date Lay %: 74%
2nd to 3rd Date Lay %: 24%
After 3rd Date Lay %: 2%
Day Game: 1/15
Social Circle: 9/10 (I rarely pull the trigger unless I’m sure it’s on)
Bar game: 1/45 (approximate because alcohol involved)
Club Game: 1/60 to (approximate because alcohol involved)
Online Dating Sites: 1/100 (OKC and POF)
Tinder 1/150 (normal approach)
Tinder 1/1000 (hardcore, spam-swiping, pure DTF approach)
Key Things To Takeaway
1) Having A Big Lay Count Is Overrated
You can see here I’ve got a pretty solid sample size. This is important from a perspective of data analysis but I want to make sure you understand that I don’t recommend chasing a big lay count for its own sake. In fact it’s something I never talk about outside of these articles because it’s a dumbass thing to care about. If it weren’t for RLD I wouldn’t have even put this list together.
Now I’m not going to lie to you, when I first started getting serious about this stuff in my early 20’s having a huge lay count would have meant a lot to me. But once I started to get some success with women I realized that chasing women for the sake of another notch was a Pyrrhic victory.
When you first start getting with women it’s a beautiful thing, you feel like a stud with every new notch you rack up. But once you realize that you can get girls consistently it quickly becomes a game of diminishing returns that adds very little to your baseline happiness.
Not only that but having a large lay count contributes nothing to your future as opposed to building a business that will be paying you a decade from now. The girls you fuck in 2016 are not going to pay your rent in 2026, in fact you probably won’t even remember their names.
Unfortunately it took me until my late 20’s to figure all this out. If you’ve noticed that I bring this up a lot in my more recent articles it’s so that hopefully you can avoid making the same mistake. My advice is to ditch your notch list after the first 25 girls or so, once you’ve realized you can get women consistently.
Instead focus on the joy of that new seduction, of having that new girl in your bed, of the euphoria of falling in love – all those good things. If you’re a high sex drive guy like me you’re going to have a lot of women in your life naturally. The key is to chase girls for the enjoyment as opposed to validating your self-worth by how many vaginas you ejaculate into.
2) Having A Big Lay Count Is Socially Unacceptable
Being a player, in this day and age is an alternative lifestyle. Not only do other guys not want to hear about your exploits but the vast majority of women will not be impressed. According to society, being a sexually liberated guy is an anti-social lifestyle.
Just having this stuff online makes most western women think I’m a scumbag/asshole/dudebro/misogynist or whatever dehumanizing buzzword they feel is appropriate for a white, heterosexual, sex-positive male.
According to the narrative of the mainstream media it is more socially acceptable to be a transgendered person then a white male who dates a lot of women. Your parents won’t agree with how you live. Your elder relatives and blue pill friends will talk to you about settling down. You can’t be open and honest about your life around your coworkers because you’re a walking HR violation.
Now frankly I don’t give a fuck about any of this, I put my life out there for all to see. But, this stuff is something you should keep in mind if you choose to be a player.
3) Keep Your Priorities Straight
Learning game, seducing women, having great sex are all amazing experiences but as we covered before, you can’t pay your rent with your lay count. Even with an active sex life you’re probably only having sex for 3 to 4 hours a week. It’s what you do with the other 164 hours in the week that’s going to contribute to the bulk of your happiness.
I recommend you look at women as your fourth priority under your wealth, health and lifestyle goals. That means being on a mission, getting up early, building your own business, getting in shape all have to come before some girl whose name you won’t even remember a decade from now.
The way to do that in practice is to spend time with girls after you you’ve taken care of business, gone to the gym and done everything you need to do for the day.
4) Having An Abundance Of Women Is Within Your Reality
At one time I used to think that only rockstars and rich guys who drove Ferraris could get hundreds of women. I also used to think that hitting on girls was somehow offensive. This is how fucked up my programming was and probably what a lot of guys think growing up. When I was in high school the best idea I had of what the player lifestyle looked like was from Maxim magazine and James Bond movies.
The truth is if you’re a decent looking guy, you can have an abundance of women in your life. There are 500 million or so dating-aged women on the planet, you wouldn’t even have time to hook up with all the women who are into you, even if you wanted to.
The biggest takeaway from all this is that you can have a lot of women in your life without being rich or famous. You can literally just go talk to a pretty girl you see on the street and have her in your bed that night. It’s all there for the taking if you want it.
5) Your SMV determines Your Results
Game is just the means to obtain and retain women in your league, it doesn’t work miracles. Your results are based primarily on your SMV (sexual market value) and you’ll either have better or worse results than me based on how you look. The vast majority of your results will be with girls in your league. I’d put myself at a 7 to an 8.5 depending on the girl and as you can see most of my results have been with girls who are between 7 – 8.5/10.
I’ve had a few 9s in there but it doesn’t happen all that often. The competition for 9s is intense. I was fucking a supercute, 22 year old club girl back in Toronto and my competition was Jake Shields who was the Strikeforce MMA champion at the time and one of the biggest drug dealers in Toronto. As for 10’s they don’t exist except in Victoria Secret runway shows, I can’t even remember the last time I’ve even seen a 10.
Outside of the women in your league you also get the women below your league and I won’t lie there is definitely some padding in my list. If you’re a high sex drive guy and want to increase your experience and ease of getting laid, aiming lower will do just that. You can probably cut your contact/lay ratio in half by aiming for girls below your SMV.
Big girls need love too!
6) Location Is Not An Excuse
As you can see the vast majority of my lays were from when I lived in Toronto, despite Toronto being ranked as the worst city in the world to pick up women. The stats show that location is no excuse.
I would guess though, with all things being equal, that your contact/lay ratio would be similar but possibly a percentage point or two better in major American cities as compared to Toronto. American girls tend to have a better and more open attitude than Torontonians. Even in Montreal the difference in women’s attitudes is noticeably better.
Location definitely has an effect but it’s not an excuse. Unless you’re living in India or a Muslim country the world is your oyster. Yes some cities might be harder than others but having an abundance of women is possible in any western country.
7) Your SMV Goes Up In Asia
Once you step out of a western country into Asia things definitely start working in your favor. If you decide to move to Thailand like I did I guarantee all your ratios will improve.
I haven’t done an experiment over here but I would say you can expect a 1 to 1.5 point SMV upgrade in Asia. With that said, don’t buy into the “white god syndrome”, if you can’t get laid at home you probably won’t be able to get laid over here, but you will definitely have a better shot.
8) Age Is Not A Factor In Her Timeline To Sex
In my experience I haven’t noticed any difference in how fast a girl will fuck you when it comes to her age. It all depends on how attractive you are and how DTF she is.
The religious conservative girl will be harder to get into bed at any age just like the party girl will be easier to lay at any age.
9) Consistently Getting Women A Decade Younger Is Realistic
This for me was probably the biggest revelation of anything on this list. That you can consistently get women in their early 20’s in your mid 30’s is still mind-blowing to me. When I was 20 a 34 year old man seemed ancient. What I didn’t realize was that the “innocent” 20 year old girls I knew at the time were probably sneaking around with guys like me. It’s relatively common for young women to see me in secret or in the case of my last 22 year old FB, lying and telling her friends that I was 28.
Not only is it possible, the craziest thing is that it’s actually easier for me to get a 24 year old at 34 then when I was 24. Now that’s not because I’m as pretty as I used to be but because I’ve got the game, money, status, balls and body that I didn’t have in my youth. With that said I’m not a believer in the manosphere idea of men peaking in their late 30s. I think men peak around 26 with all factors considered and at least part of my results come from looking younger than I am.
10) Being White Is An SMV Boost With Minority Women
Being white, in my experience will give you a .5 to 1 point SMV boost when it comes to dating minorities, especially with Asian women. Looking through the list I would say that not only am I able to get hotter minority women on average but I would also guess that my contact/lay ratio is higher. This has been especially true since I moved to Thailand.
With that said being white is not always an SMV boost. Here in Thailand it is on average, however I’ve noticed that some attractive upper class Thai girls won’t date white men either due to social stigma or because they’re only attracted to Thai men. I’ve also noticed this in Canada where Chinese born girls who are there to study will only date Asian men.
With that said, I want you to know I don’t take any pride in the color of my skin, in fact I think it’s ridiculous that girls even care. But since I’m attracted to women of all races I’ll happily take any edge I can get, no matter how arbitrary it is.
11) Ethnicity Is Not A Factor In Her Timeline To Sex
Girls are either DTF or they’re not and ethnicity is not a factor, at least in western countries. There are a lot of stereotypes out there of certain races being more promiscuous and certain races being more prude but in my experience that’s bullshit. Just like age, ethnicity is not a factor. Her timeline is going to be based on what type of woman she is as opposed to what race she is.
12) Women Fuck On The First Date
As you can see, 75% of my lays are on the first date. This is because women want sex as much as we do. She might tell you “we’re not having sex tonight”, but the vast majority of the time that’s just so she can keep plausible deniability.
The old Mystery Method of waiting 15 hours for a lay is garbage. In fact you’ll find that many girls who go home with you on the first date will be disappointed if you don’t escalate – she came home with you for a reason. You really need to internalize that women want sex as much as we do – the only thing stopping them is social programming.
13) If It Hasn’t Happened By Date 5 It’s Not Happening
If she hasn’t fucked you by date 5 she’s either stringing you along or she only has sex in relationships. In fact, in the vast majority of cases if she hasn’t fucked you by date 3 it’s probably not going to happen. As you can see out of 140 girls I only fucked two past the 3rd date and that’s including a virgin.
If she’s the type of girl who only has sex in relationships that’s cool. And if you still want to pursue her that’s cool too. But I find I need about 3-6 months to screen her for being girlfriend material and that’s a pretty long time to wait. It’s usually better to move on and find a girl who’s into you or willing to have sex on your timeline. For me that’s date 3 for the average woman and date 5 for exceptional women.
14) Players Have A Different Timeline To Sex Then Average Guys
If you’re looking at my timeline to sex and thinking it seems fast, you’re right. That’s because players operate on a different timeline than average guys.
Here is what the average guy’s timeline to sex looks like:
Standard Sex Timeline
Promiscuous Girl: 1st Date
Average Girl: 3rd Date
Conservative Girl: 5th Date
Virgin/Very Conservative Girl: Relationship Only
If there is one area I excel in more than others it’s in the escalation. Once she’s back to your place a lot of the time it’s a done deal, but when it’s not the keys are polite patience and getting her sexually excited enough to overcome her logical programming. Of course with complete respect for consent and never using any type of force. Here is what your timeline looks like when you’ve got your game together:
Player Sex Timeline
Promiscuous Girl: No Date (straight to your place)
Average Girl: 1st Date
Conservative Girl: 3rd Date
Virgin/Very Conservative Girl: 3rd to 5th Date
The keys to getting laid fast are:
- Understanding that she wants to have sex as opposed to her doing it for your benefit
- Making yourself attractive to women through style, fitness and grooming
- Running tight game
- Sexually escalating
- Being good in bed
15) Virgins/Inexperienced Girls Are Easier Than You Think
I remember in high school the average timeline to have sex with your virgin girlfriend was 6 months to a year. Looking back this seems insane. The truth is virgin or inexperienced girls are no less horny than the average girl, in fact many times it’s the opposite. All those years of sexual repression add to it.
It’s true that inexperienced girls usually take longer to get into bed but not always and not by much. I’ve hooked up with 5 virgins and here is how it broke down:
23 Year Old Virgin: Head on date 3 and sex on date 5. This was a girl who had a year-long boyfriend before she met me off OK Cupid.
18 Year Old Virgin: I had sex with her on date 3 in her dorm room when I was 28. This is a girl who had a boyfriend for a year before me that she wouldn’t let fuck her.
18 Year Old Semi-Virgin: I met her when I was 32, spit 3 minutes of day game at her and got her phone number. I invited her straight to my place the next day and despite being 14 years older, and her only having had sex once before, we were having rough sex within ten minutes (I’m terrible, I know).
Early 20’s Virgin: She came straight to my place from Tinder (you can read the full report in my book) telling me nothing would happen, she ended up giving me a handjob.
Early 20’s Virgin: This girl stayed a virgin due to strong religious programming from her Sikh background and I was never able to fuck her. Despite not letting me even finger her she was completely comfortable licking my ass and getting facefucked on the first date. In fact she was more into rough play then almost any girl I’ve met.
What this should show you is that even with girls who don’t have much experience the timeline is not all that different when you can turn her on. And even if she won’t have sex with you, she’ll still give you play. Whether she’s a virgin or promiscuous, women want to have sex with guys they’re attracted to, it’s only social programming that stops it from happening.
Believe me when I tell you this, in a world without sexual shaming the average young, attractive girl would fuck four or five guys a night at the club. Nightclubs would look like sex parties. Instead we have a world where girls grind on four or five guys a night and then go home to masturbate.
It’s only when you’re able to get her horny enough that you override her logical, repressive instincts. That’s the difference between the player and the average guy. The average guy will date her for a year without sex whereas she’ll give up her virginity to a player whose a decade older than her on date # 3 – crazy shit.
16) Rejection Is The Name Of The Game
As you can see the vast majority of your results are going to be rejections. That’s because we as men are sexual salesmen and women are buyers. That’s just something you have to live with. With that said, if you’re new to the game, don’t let my numbers intimidate you, Many of those women gave me their phone number or showed some sign of interest, it’s not just a brutal string of harsh rejections one after the other.
Also, the stats I’ve got up are for lays only. If we’re just counting action you could probably add a couple hundred girls to the list and assume your contact/action ratio is half of what it takes to get laid. Even if you don’t get laid you’ve still got the option for good conversation, makeouts, oral and all kinds of debauchery.
17) The More Competitive Your Environment The Worse Your Results
When it comes to cold approach contact/lay ratios day game is the best, followed by night game followed by online. This is because in day game you’re not competing with anyone, in night game you’re up against a couple hundred guys and online you’re competing with thousands of thirsty dudes spam blasting that 7 just because she’s showing a bit of skin in her profile pic.
Sexual economics follows the same rules as standard economics, supply and demand. With women as buyers, the more options they have, the pickier they become.
18) Day Game Is Your Best Option For Cold Approach Pickup
Out of all your options day game has the best contact/lay ratio, not only does it cost you nothing but it has the highest quality women. Quality women, in my experience, are generally not staggering around the club at 2 AM on a weeknight or fielding hundreds of messages from guys on Tinder.
Women don’t want to tell people they met you at a club, in their mind meeting someone at a club is dirty. Whereas in day game, not only is it not a stigma, it’s actually a positive. She can tell her friend she had a “meet-cute” with a charming guy she bumped into “randomly” on the street just like in the movies. Of course this is completely arbitrary but that’s how women see things.
If you’re looking for a girlfriend or a quality MLTR, day game is your best bet. Sure you’ll find some stunners at the club or online but in my opinion, the loyal, sweet, mentally healthy girls are best found during the day or in some cases through your social circle.
19) Social Circle Has The Best Contact/Lay Ratio
Looking at the data, you can see that I go 9/10 in social circle on average. This is because I don’t pull the trigger until I know the girl is into me. This is as close to a rejection-proof method as you can get. If this means you occasionally leave some money on the table it’s no big deal – the most important thing is to protect your position.
In social circle, as opposed to other types of game, you want to err on the side of caution. This is because every rejection costs you rank. In day game or online you can spam blast girls all day with no impact on your social status – not true with social game.
The way to make social game work for you is to link up with cool guys where you’re coming from a leadership position or at the least a high-ranking position. If you’re a younger guy and still in high school or university then social circle is going to be your primary base for pulling.
If you’re struggling, my advice is to put your own crew together if you have the skills or link up with an alpha guy who’s going to give you respect in exchange for being his lieutenant. I did this in high school and by our final year we were the top crew in school with our pick of younger girls.
The way to play social situations is to take your time – no aggressive PUA tactics necessary. When you’re doing your rounds at the party notice which girls are checking you out. Notice which girls are willing to spend half the party talking to you. Maybe you invite them all to the next event. Or maybe she’s already rolling with your crew and you wait until you get some alone time with her.
With social circle you know you’re going to see her again so you just take your time and let it unfold naturally. Sometimes that’s not even necessary. In the past I’ve had friends’ girlfriends sell me to their newly single friends on being a cool, fun guy and all I had to do was show up, not say anything dumb and I got to go home with a hot girl handed to me on a silver platter.
20) Social Circle Game Might Not Be Worth Your Time
In my experience, social circle is a great way to meet quality women if you have a quality social circle where you rank at or near the top. If you’re not at the top of your social circle it’s not going to be worth your time. Not only is it bad for your self-esteem but the girls in your network are only going to want to hook up with the top guys in your crew.
Even if you do have a good crew, social circle might still not be worth it. This is especially true if you’re an older guy. These days I don’t maintain much of a social circle outside of a core group of guys to chill with occasionally. This is because maintaining a social circle takes at least 15 to 20 hours a week, time that could be spent on RLD or with girls that I’m already fucking. Once you get good you’ll easily be able to get more women than you have time for between day game and online.
21) Bar Game Is Decent But It’s Better To Go To Bars For Fun
Bar game is not something I do very much anymore but in the past I knew if I went out 3 nights one of those nights I would get laid, assuming I talked to about 15 girls each night. I definitely prefer bar to club game because you can run verbal game. In club game you can’t hear shit and the entire place is designed as one loud, shiny, distracting cockblock.
I’ve tested the whole PUA thing of going to bars by yourself sober and have achieved results from it but I don’t recommend that approach. Yes it will tighten up your game but it’s not very fun. Better to go out with your boys and have fun. Then once you’ve had a few laughs and got a few drinks in your system you can go make the rounds with your wingman. That way even if you don’t get laid you’ve had a good time.
22) Nightclubs Are The Worst Place To Get Laid
Nightclubs are the worst place to get laid. The entire industry is built around guys trying and failing to get laid. Not only are you spending a ton of money but everything in the club is working against you. And if you’re serious about your mission, you’re going to be in bed and up early not running around at 3 AM trying to take home drunk semi-attractive girls.
From the bright lights to the loud music to other guys to her friends cockblocking to her puking in the washroom – clubs are a clusterfuck for cold approach pickup. I’m not saying it’s not possible, with some effort I’ll usually be able to pull 1 out of 3 nights I go out, I’m just saying it’s not the best way to get women.
Also, if you’re just an average looking dude who’s got himself in shape, dresses well and can talk a good game you’ll get great results in day game but you’ll be ignored in the club. Everything in the world is going to be working against you getting laid.
In my opinion you cannot be a legit cold approach club player unless you’re a good looking guy – that means an 8 or above. It’s no accident that all the nightgame dating coaches just happen to be young good looking guys, at least the ones who actually pull hot girls. And even those guys are playing the numbers game and getting rejected left, right and center, they just don’t show you those videos.
The only selling point of a club is that it has all the hottest girls in one place. Unfortunately those hot club girls are usually going home with guys they already know. Outside of a few exceptional guys, consistently getting hot women at the club is about social circle game not cold approach.
The way you put that together is you either start promoting events by yourself or you get in touch with promoters and bring girls to them. If you’re in university or have a decent social network it shouldn’t be hard to round up a few cute girls and bring them to a club. The promoters will love you and you get to be the man with the plan in your social circle. If you’re willing to put in the time this is hands down the best way to consistently get laid with hot girls outside of being in a rock band.
23) Online Game Is The 2nd Most Efficient Way To Get Laid
Online game as you can see has the lowest initial contact to lay ratio. This is because every girl online is being bombarded by thirsty guys. With that said online IMO is still a really efficient way to get laid. You can easily spam blast 100 first contacts from your smart phone at your day job. When I was still a wage slave I loved the fact that I was getting paid to hunt down girls online.
Yes the quality isn’t the best and yes you have to wade through a lot of timewasters but you’ll find plenty of sexually available girls between 7 – 8.5. Online is also awesome for guys who are too nervous to approach. There is no better way to get comfortable around women then going on a lot of dates.
24) Tinder Is The Most Efficient Way To Get Laid
Despite Tinder having the worst contact/lay ratio it’s actually the most efficient way to get laid because of the speed you can get those contacts out.
Although Tinder is technically online dating it is a different kind of beast. Following standard online dating protocol works on Tinder but at a slightly higher contact(swipe)/lay ratio. This is again because every guy is on there swiping right on everyone and the more options a woman has the pickier she becomes. Also if you’re over 26 many of the younger girls won’t be able to see your profile, whereas on dating sites they can.
Where things change is when you follow the hardcore spam swiping method I breakdown in my book: How To Get Laid On Tinder. As you can see in the stats your contact/lay ratio using this method is atrocious, this is for a few reasons:
- Your super sexual profile and messages screen out a lot of women you could have converted with softer game
- Since you’re swiping right on everyone, at least 25% of the girls you match with you won’t want to pursue
- If you’re older, many of the 18-25 year old women won’t be able to see you
With that said, what this method lacks in subtlety it makes up for in efficiency. In fact the method I outline in the book is the most efficient way of getting laid that I know of. In a month I fucked 10 new girls with 8 of them coming straight to my apartment. This at a cost of $0 and nearly all of my interactions were while I was at work, getting paid.
Some guys have pointed out that I left a lot of money on the table by not running conversion game and not going on dates. But that was the idea, efficiency. I feel like the results speak for themselves – I think 10 girls in a month and no time wasted on dates that go nowhere is pretty legit.
It also makes me incredibly jealous of you 18 year old guys who have access to this stuff. When I was 18 I had to use a black book to write down girls’ phone numbers and then call them on their parent’s landline for fuck’s sake.
- Lay Count Is Overrated
- Having A Big Lay Count Is Socially Unacceptable
- Keep Your Priorities In Check
- Having An Abundance Of Women Is Within Your Reality
- Your SMV determines Your Results
- Location Is Not An Excuse
- Your SMV Goes Up In Asia
- Age Is Not A Factor In Her Timeline To Sex
- Consistently Getting Women A Decade Younger Is Realistic
- Being White Is SMV Boost With Minority Women
- Ethnicity Is Not A Factor In Her Timeline To Sex
- Women Fuck On The First Date
- If It Hasn’t Happened By Date 5 It’s Not Happening
- Players Have A Different Timeline To Sex Then Average Guys
- Virgins/Inexperienced Girls Are Easier Than You Think
- Rejection Is The Name Of The Game
- The More Competitive Your Environment The Worse Your Results
- Day Game Is Your Best Option For Cold Approach Pickup
- Social Circle Has The Best Contact/Lay Ratio
- Social Circle Game Might Not Be Worth Your Time
- Bar Game Is Decent But Better To Go To Bars For Fun
- Nightclubs Are The Worst Place To Get Laid
- Online Game Is An Efficient Way To Get Laid
- Tinder Is The Most Efficient Way To Get Laid
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